Re: [Wg-apnic-fees] The fees and slowness of policy.

[Jas Webb <jaswbb@yahoo.com.au>]

Hi Akinori,

I have been mulling over sending this email, as I
don't want to offend - but some content here may be
confronting. So better to put it out there and for me
to go hide under the bed. :-)

--- MAEMURA Akinori <maem@maem.org> wrote:

> Okay I see your point.
> 
> The word *discount* seems to have drawn too much
> attention,
> but I believe they were not for bargaining but for
> calculation.

That calculation, as you put it, was for the funding
of the NIR right? Could be passed onto the NIR member
without any oversight by the rest of the AP community?
As far as I am aware, with very little view of the NIR
open policy meetings, it could be adjusted arbitrarily
(to the detriment of the NIR) to the advantage of the
member and creating an unfair model where a NIR
serviced member ends up paying less than, say a APNIC
serviced member.

I'm not saying that the NIRs do this, I saying the
potential is there, especially as a sceptical
"outsider" looking in.

I think this was raised in another persons post to the
fees list.. But not clearly addressed.


> I see your point, and I don't yet see a possible
> scheme of
> the governance among APNIC and NIRs in that case.


what are your reservations? Does giving the voting
power to your members change what you do that
dramatically? What part of the governance process do
you think wouldn't work under that structure?

Are you worried that APNIC might simply create a
regional office replacing the function of JPNIC?

> 
> It would be good for you to know that almost all
> NIRs are
> running their own open policy meeting, and their
> main 
> function is cascading the policy discussion with
> APNIC one.
> The consistency between the policies of APNIC's and
> NIRs'
> are really respected

Cascading is a "top-down" word, not a "bottom up
process" word.

Again, I think the structure disagrees with the
intent.


> | 
> I don't know *membership organisation* in general,
> but
> I can see all other RIRs seem to have
> one-entity-one-vote
> rule.

yes, APNIC is certainly "out there" on that one.

 
> I see your point.  Still I have my own idea as
> written, but
> I feel like having thoughts from other people.

The more that contribute the better!

> 
 
> in that country would be concerned about NIR
> business 
> operations, and the cost of an NIR should be born by
> the
> LIRs under that NIR

and thus we have the "problem" where the Korean
government thinks IP addresses are national property
against the sentiment of every other NIR and RIR.
And the law that says that Koreans must get the
addresses from KRNIC (*) doesn't appear to be
consistent with the the shared policy structure.

This is clearly a failing of the structure and system.

(*) I actually don't know what the law passed was
exactly - I am may be wrongly applying second hand
information.

> Our main presence would be online but still we have
> many
> reasons to be in Tokyo - major portion of membership
> is
> located in Tokyo, almost all board members are in
> Tokyo
> business counterparts like ministries and other
> consortiums 
> are in Tokyo.  At least in cases in JP, KR and TW,
> very 
> large portion of economy is consentrated in the
> capital city.
> US and Australian cases are not so similar.

I see that you wish to maintain a conformance to
conventional business and inherit the same costs.

> 
> If we can set up JPNIC from scratch right now, we
> might
> be able to try location in dependency, but that is
> not our
> case and we already holds 30 employees here in
> Tokyo.
> 

Understood.

> NIRs know we need to be reasonable enough to
> ordinary
> members. 
> 

Please don't say "ordinary". I am yet to see a clear
definition of ordinary members as there appears to be
the various tier levels, which are not equitable, and
also the NIR members that have quite a lot of
influence (looking at the make-up of the APNIC Board).

-Jas


--
Jas Webb


		
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