Re: [Wg-apnic-fees] Counterproposal of new membership fee structure for APNIC

[Izumi Okutani <izumi@nic.ad.jp>]

Hi all,


We will have discussions on the fee revision at NIR SIG on Thursday 7
September, 16:00 - 17:30.

The full agenda of NIR SIG is as follows:
(The website will be updated shortly)

+ CNNIC Update (Tao Chen, CNNIC)
+ TWNIC Update  (Ching-Heng Ku, TWNIC)
+ IDNIC Update (Ahmad Alkazimy, IDNIC)
+ APNIC fee discussions (Paul Wilson, APNIC)
+ Discussions paper on the proposed revision of APNIC fee structure
  (Toshiyuki Hosaka, JPNIC)
+ NIR's sistuation on APNIC fee review (Ching-Heng Ku, TWNIC)
+ KRNIC's situation on APNIC fee review (Billy Cheon, KRNIC)

The SIG is open to everyone, so please feel free to join us in the
dicusssions!


Izumi

Toshiyuki Hosaka wrote:
> Dear Philip,
> 
> Thank you very much for your prompt response, too.
> I have commented in line.
> 
> Philip Smith wrote
> on 2006/09/04 21:05;
>> Dear Hosaka-san, everyone,
>>
>> So NIRs pay less and ordinary members pay more under the JPNIC counter
>> proposal?
>>
>> For some reason, I don't see that one being too popular with many 
>> members.
>>
>> Note that NIRs are not the only organisations who support and sponsor
>> APNIC meetings. Can those other organisations get preferential treatment
>> for their fees too please?
> 
> As I responded to Tsurumaki-san's comments, you are very right.
> Thanks for your comment and sorry again for the other organizations who 
> contributed as a sponsor. So please let me withdraw that part.
> 
> 
>> Seriously though, both proposal and counter proposal link fee size with
>> address space, implying a payment for address space received. And that
>> disturbs me if the current model is meant to be one of APNIC being the
>> custodian of Internet Resources. Shouldn't members be paying fees for
>> allocation services supplied by APNIC? As with the Internet Routing
>> table, it's not the size of the prefix that matters, it's the number,
>> and what is done with them.
>>
>> So how about simply setting the fees according to the number of /21s
>> handed out (which happens once per /21), plus an allocation maintenance
>> fee (which is annual, ongoing, and charged per allocation and not on the
>> size).
> 
> That could be an option. I'm interesting in how much each member pays 
> according to this idea.
> 
> 
>> Furthermore, I've seen no discussion whatsoever about balancing fees
>> according to the host economy's GDP. The AP region is diverse, ranging
>> from developing Internet to technological leaders, with GDPs to match.
> 
> That may be fair on one hand, but it may lead to "membership-fee haven" 
> (something like "tax-haven") as well.
> 
> 
>> I think any revised APNIC fee structure has to recognise that some parts
>> of the APNIC region can easily afford the fees as they are today, and as
>> are proposed through either proposal, yet many other parts simply cannot
>> even though they require the address space (and result in the severe
>> brokeness of using NAT and double NAT to attempt to provide connection
>> services to their customers).
>>
>> I'm sure we can revisit all this on Thursday! ;-)
> 
> Your comment implies we definitely need much more discussion before 
> final decision! I myself do not stick to my proposal and want to hear 
> what the other think. That's what I would like to do.
> 
> Thanks again for your comments.
> 
> Besr regards,
> Toshi
> -- 
> Toshiyuki Hosaka
> JPNIC
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> philip
>> -- 
>>
>> Toshiyuki Hosaka said the following on 4/9/06 19:58:
>>> Dear WG members,
>>>
>>> I have created a counterproposal of APNIC new membership fee structure
>>> and attached in this email. I hope this helps to facilitate a discussion
>>> on this issue.
>>>
>>> Your comments would be highly appreciated.
>>>
>>> thanks and best regards,
>>> Toshi
>>> -- 
>>> Toshiyuki Hosaka
>>> Japan Network Information Center (JPNIC)
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wg-apnic-fees mailing list
>>> Wg-apnic-fees@apnic.net
>>> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/wg-apnic-fees
>>
> 
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